Curse

JDRyder · Sep 06, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

"Sure there may be situations where it's even more beneficial to bring other PvE skills on some or all the heroes" --- "but the point is that there's tons of PvE skills which would be horribly powerful if heroes could use them, not just Save Yourselves! like you said."

What was unclear about that?

cuz they are not horribly powerful..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

They don't need to coordinate spike, they just need to spam on recharge.

thats nice but unless they modded the IA for cop "very unlikely" they will use it as a interrupt...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Give up, your point was wrong, SY! is not the only skill "people may change" to if heroes could use PvE skills.

many people are also bad.

Cobalt · Sep 06, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

I think 7 heroes is really a necessity for some classes that have been poorly balanced, or over nerfed so that are only desired in a certain few areas with and only with particular builds.

Like Mesmers, Rits, Sins, Paragons, even Dervish all of whom for the most part can't not either heal as well as a monk, do damage like an ele or tank like a warrior thus are not sought or grouping by most who seek the best possible chance for success.

It is not the player populations fault they prefer other classes over these classes to group with they want to succeed, nor is it the fault of the players who play these classes, it is the pathetic class balancing in GW that is at fault.

So at the very least Anet should provide a away for these weak classes they created and beat to uselessness to migrate through the chapters with as much of a chance for success as anyone else.

Give them 7 heroes so they may have a team that is as strong as any pug you owe them that much!

Tyla · Sep 06, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I think 7 heroes is really a necessity for some classes that have been poorly balanced, or over nerfed so that are only desired in a certain few areas with and only with particular builds.

Every profession has a powerful build available for use in PvE.

Quote:

Like Mesmers, Rits, Sins, Paragons, even Dervish all of whom for the most part can't not either heal as well as a monk, do damage like an ele or tank like a warrior thus are not sought or grouping by most who seek the best possible chance for success.

Anyone can run Cry of Pain, and that includes Mesmers. Mesmer hex, Cry of Pain, win.

Ritualists can pull out an extremely powerful Splinter Weapon, and also support the party defensively at the same time.

'Sins have MS/DB, which generates some of the nastiest DPS in the game when it comes to PvE.

Paragons deal moderate damage while having the ability to support the party. Even moreso when it comes to the Imbagon, which is pracically godmode.

Dervs have the most overpowered weapon in the game, next to spear.

And only bad Warriors tank. Warriors are there to deal damage.

Quote:

It is not the player populations fault they prefer other classes over these classes to group with they want to succeed, nor is it the fault of the players who play these classes, it is the pathetic class balancing in GW that is at fault.

No, it's their fault that they can't see these professions exceed stupidity though. Even a single CoP is quite devastating in PvE.

@JD: I missed the part on PvP. However, you could still use Brawling Headbutt and Steelfang to fuel the adrenaline either way.

R.Shayne · Sep 06, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

ANET has already said that the HoM would not be locked after GW2 was released which leads me to believe that if a player likes a certain reward for something they can return to GW1 and fill that Monument.

I would guess that NCSoft will at some point bundle all 3.5 GW1 campaigns with GW2, just like they are doing now with GW1 3 campaigns.

I don't expect the servers to close for some time but if someone wants to play GW1 I do expect the number of players to have decreased so something will need to be done about FoW, UA, DoA, Deep, and Urgoz where henchmen are not allowed. The Deep and Urgoz are already at the state if you don't have a pve guild you might as well forget it and DoA is declining again but Tormented Weapons may revive this area.

Inner Salbat · Sep 06, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I think 7 heroes is really a necessity for some classes that have been poorly balanced, or over nerfed so that are only desired in a certain few areas with and only with particular builds.

It goes way beyond that my main is a monk I have 10 other PvE characters making a total of 11 the whole reason behind so many? learn how they work even if you don't like them, now that aside even I as a monk of all things cannot find groups to do most of the things I want to do with a PuG, so my only option is to mutilate my skill bar with PvE skills because they can't be shifted to heros so I have to run some important ones and I utterly hate it, but I would live with that if I could tell the other 4 heros what to bring then I'd likely not need those PvE skills on my bar.

I must have sat for a good hour and a half today looking for someone to go do Duncan with me I didn't find a single group, and that is more or less the same with any Dungeon I wanted to do which means my only options is H/H and in hard mode doing dungeons (unless I'm running something wrong) completely suck, because my Hero's are let down by the ineptitude of the henchmen.

So I have 3 choices, 1. use consumables & or power stones, 2. forget about completing the dungeons in hard mode, 3. sit and wait till my gray and old for a party that in all likely hood will fail because it's probably there first time doing it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

DoA is declining again but Tormented Weapons may revive this area.

Don't bet on it, farmers are down there if I want tormented weapons (which I don't) then I'll buy them, screw going though all that torment to get them, and anyone that played before the Usran nerf already has theres.

Random Guitarist · Sep 06, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I think 7 heroes would be really cool, so you can actually solo the 8 player missions.

This would benefit many people as 7 heroes allows a single person to manipulate a 8 person build.

This could however mess up the idea of the game. Obviously GW is an MMORPG so if everyone started to use 7 heroes at the same time it would take away the soul of the game.

Personally, like i said before i think 7 heroes would kick ass. Often, i play with one other player with 6 heroes, this is just a small step up.

Random Guitarist

Inner Salbat · Sep 06, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Guitarist

This could however mess up the idea of the game. Obviously GW is an MMORPG so if everyone started to use 7 heroes at the same time it would take away the soul of the game.

The thing is it's already messed up what happens is this, and I've noticed it for the last 3 releases EOTN,NF & Factions for PuGs if you don't get in with the rush of people that are trying to complete it if you come back a few months later after taking a break, everything you once could do with a PuG when it was first released is no longer achievable by PuG, your only options then it appears is Guilds / Heros or just blind luck that you got a team, what you have left in those areas are farmers a.k.a VS farmers.

I don't like giving a class more importants that the rest but when you have a key class like a monk not able to find groups to do certain things by PuG, you've got something seriously wrong with your game, and all the M.o.X hero's and summons aren't going to make a lick of differents.

hobbes2oo · Sep 06, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I would like to have the ability to add up to 7 heros to a single player. However there must be balance in the game too. The way I see it 7 heroes per player should only be allowed in the hardest of areas (elite), or in hard mode. The Domain of Anguish, The Underworld, The Deep, Fissure of Woe and Urgoz's Warren all come to mind. Also ArenaNet could scale the difficulty of these and other areas based on how many heros are in your party.

Inner Salbat · Sep 06, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbes2oo

I would like to have the ability to add up to 7 heros to a single player. However there must be balance in the game too. The way I see it 7 heroes per player should only be allowed in the hardest of areas (elite), or in hard mode. The Domain of Anguish, The Underworld, The Deep, Fissure of Woe and Urgoz's Warren all come to mind.

I'd be happy with that solution including paying for the luxury.

Toxage · Sep 06, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

7 Heroes wouldn't imbalance the game at all.

A human paragon with my build can get over 80% damage reduction from 1 player... How is that not overpowered Arena Net!

Cobalt · Sep 06, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

It goes way beyond that my main is a monk I have 10 other PvE characters making a total of 11 the whole reason behind so many? learn how they work even if you don't like them, now that aside even I as a monk of all things cannot find groups to do most of the things I want to do with a PuG, so my only option is to mutilate my skill bar with PvE skills because they can't be shifted to heros so I have to run some important ones and I utterly hate it, but I would live with that if I could tell the other 4 heros what to bring then I'd likely not need those PvE skills on my bar.

I must have sat for a good hour and a half today looking for someone to go do Duncan with me I didn't find a single group, and that is more or less the same with any Dungeon I wanted to do which means my only options is H/H and in hard mode doing dungeons (unless I'm running something wrong) completely suck, because my Hero's are let down by the ineptitude of the henchmen.

So I have 3 choices, 1. use consumables & or power stones, 2. forget about completing the dungeons in hard mode, 3. sit and wait till my gray and old for a party that in all likely hood will fail because it's probably there first time doing it too.

Don't bet on it, farmers are down there if I want tormented weapons (which I don't) then I'll buy them, screw going though all that torment to get them, and anyone that played before the Usran nerf already has theres.

Duncan is one of those where even a Monk has to have a specific build to get in a group.

You are right if we had seven we could make the rules, set all the skills and do the runs the way we wanted not become cookie cutter specific for someone else.

Bryant Again · Sep 06, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

many people are also bad.

One of many if not the most important reason why many people won't switch over to use 7 heroes, and why many still don't use them today.

Dev121 · Sep 06, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

7 heroes please. Or take away 15 of the heroes that will never get used, just a waste of time making them to be honest.
I'll probably play the game again if they give me 7 heroes, just me, I dont care about anyone else.

MercenaryKnight · Sep 06, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

No reason to not be allowed to use 7 heroes. It would be different if you could give each hero say 1 pve skill. Thus they would be overpowered compared to running henchman they provide.

Pugs basically fail or win. The ones that win are generally the groups where people complain need war tank, ele nukers, and monks. Leaving some people out of the groups.

Being able to play solo with heroes should be a viable option (just like everyone else said in this thread). Make it so the last 4 heroes function as henchman and don't have individual flags.

Should have had that available since heroes were implemented. People will play with heroes and a friend for more heroes. Or heroes with henchman. Letting us use more heroes won't magically force us to never play with a pug again or be the death of pugs.

Inner Salbat · Sep 07, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Duncan is one of those where even a Monk has to have a specific build to get in a group.

You are right if we had seven we could make the rules, set all the skills and do the runs the way we wanted not become cookie cutter specific for someone else.

Yep I gave up in the end I tried a few times with h/h just couldn't even get past level 1 in the end I gave up and put it on the shelf as a to do later and went and vanquished another area in eotn instead because that was at least achievable, so I haven't given up as in quit totally just put it on pause.

JDRyder · Sep 07, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

One of many if not the most important reason why many people won't switch over to use 7 heroes, and why many still don't use them today.

people will still use heros even if they are bad cause most people have the mind set of "this build is good f*** every 1 else, im the best" w/o knowing how much of a skill curve the game has.

Inner Salbat · Sep 07, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

people will still use heros even if they are bad cause most people have the mind set of "this build is good f*** every 1 else, im the best" w/o knowing how much of a skill curve the game has.

"some" may have that opinion, its really all about choice the more choices you have in a game the better the game is if you ask me.

Amy Awien · Sep 07, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

people will still use heros even if they are bad cause most people have the mind set of "this build is good f*** every 1 else, im the best" w/o knowing how much of a skill curve the game has.

Odd, you now seem to imply that it's mostly bad players that use heroes? An earlier complaint was that the demise of PuGs was due to the good players using hero's and avoiding PuGs and thus lowering the overall quality of PuGs.

People avoid PuGs not because of some their faults, but because there's something about PuGs that they don't like, it's a fault in PuGs and to bring people back to PuGs you have to address the faults in PuGs.

Inner Salbat · Sep 07, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

People avoid PuGs not because of some their faults, but because there's something about PuGs that they don't like, it's a fault in PuGs and to bring people back to PuGs you have to address the faults in PuGs.

That cannot be fixed, Guild Wars in order to support ~all~ of it's content with PuG would have to have a population 5-10 times as big as it is now unfortunately it's declining not growing, hence the scrambling around with Guild Wars the complete collection, and MoX to see who is still listening that isn't playing.

It might be reward failure, loot scaling failure or both if people only want to do certain things once and once only then eventually you run into people that can't do certain things because all those that we're worthy of doing it with have gone on to other things, like myself I only plan on doing ~all~ of it just the one time, after it's all done what is there left for me to do? log off and wait for the next pitiful attempt at getting me back in the game like a MoX hero.

7 hero's on the other hand might peak my interest to do it more than once, on more than just 1 class.

As I said before;
Bad people in PuGs will be bad at 3 hero's and 7 hero's
Good people in PuGs should with in reason be able to handle 3 hero's and more.

The bonus of the bad guys is that they will have a choice learn to play properly in a PuG or H/H, while being forced into a position to H/H it might just teach them a thing or too about why there PuG was bad, because now there the masters of there own destiny, maybe it's just me but I notice my errors a lot more with h/h than with PuGs because there is a back up monk to cover my mistakes, a hero normally won't.

Courage! · Sep 07, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

/notsigned 7 Kamikaze bombs rdy to die